By Shahrokh Ahkami, Editor of Persian Hertitage
Fall 2001
Mohammed Reza Shajarian, a great Iranian treasure, was the master of Persian music and is considered as important as Mr. Pavarotti. Persian Heritage wanted to interview him for a long time and finally was given the opportunity.
The Night I interviewed him I will always remember- the night I had dinner with a great Iranian treasure Mr. Mohammad Reza Shajarian and his talented son, and Kyhan Kalhor and Alizadeh. During dinner, I witnessed his love for his son, how he cared and nourished his son who was not feeling well. Though the two are consummate professional partners, what I saw was a father and son relationship and not a Master and his student.
Because of the birth of my first grandchild, I was not able to attend his concert. Regretfully a few weeks later I found out that he was ill and has since returned to Iran. As you read this interview, you will find a man who is more than a master of music, he is a man who has a deep love and respect for all things and one who is filled with love, affection, pride and patriotism.
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Mr. Shajarian, your concerts in San Diego was well received by our audience and the press. American newspapers such as the New York Times and Wall Street Journal have written lengthy articles about you. Please introduce yourself to us, especially to our youn readers born out of Iran and our Non-Iranian readers who are not familiar with your voice and music.
I was five or six years old when I started to sing. By the time I was twelve everybody in my hometown of Mashad, Iran knew me. My father was a Master of song and singing and gradually I started to learn more and more about Persian music. When I finished high school I was eighteen. I left home to teach. It was at this time that I started to seriously learn music and began to occasionally sing on Mashad Radio. So it was forty to forty three years ago that I had my first radio program (at that time we had to perform live on radio). I arrived in Tehran at the age of twenty-five and started to sing on Radio Tehran. There I attended singing and music classes taught by masters of classical music and song. I worked with this group of master musicians, even after the Revolution.
What is the difference between now and then?
The participation of master musician Mr. Alizadeh. He had a special style of influence in my music and singing that you can hear in my new song “Winter”. It is a new work with a s special message. I mean to say that even if an entire collection of music lacks a message at least part of it will have a message. I carry that message. This kind of music, however, is very different from the typical classic music. Audiences are not accustomed to it and it may create a question for them, but within a few times of listening you get used to it and enjoy it.
Prior to coming to see you, some of my colleagues were asking who is this Persian musician that you want to interview? I told them I wanted to interview the Iranian Pavarotti or Placido Domingo. You are not only a great singer with a beautiful voice, you have a great role in the revival of Persian classical music. Was this your destiny?
Perhaps. My father forbid music and was against me becoming a musician because of the improprieties found in the music world. I am not saying all musicians at that time were bad and “unclean “., but for the most part the music world was corrupt. For this reason many Iranian families, including my father, forbid their children to become musicians and would angrily tell them that they could not become the fiddler of a dancer!! Despite the fact that dance and music are great arts and professions, they had been suppressed in Iran for 1400 years because of the way music was interpreted. Young music lovers like myself were afraid to be blamed, so quietly without my father’s knowledge, I learned the music. I had great respect for him and didn’t want to hurt his feelings.
Since the age of eighteen I knew that this was a sacred profession and that I could make a living in it and be respected. So, despite my fears of being accused a bad person I pursued this career. I did so with love and inner spirituality. In the beginning my father was very unhappy that I left Mashad. All the blame for my departure to Tehran fell on him. Later, when he saw how serious I was and how hard I worked and studied, he calmed down.
What was your goal?!
Unlike many artists, I did not desire or expect to reach fame and money overnight. I was poor and there were times when I wasn’t able to pay the rent on my house. I did receive many invitations to play at house parties, bars and nightclubs. In fact one invitation would have paid an amount equal to five years of my salary that I was receiving from the radio. But these invitations were not what I wanted and often considered shameful. But, for those who accepted such invitations, fortune and fame came quickly. Mine took longer, not one night stands but one to two years. I knew I had to avoid immoral situations to reach my goal. I knew I had to remain uncorrupt. Perhaps the fact that I avoided the dark side of the profession has encouraged families in Iran to persuade their children to play some sort of musical instrument and know some kind of art. As an artist I have always tried to bring prestige to the profession.
Even today people dressed in religious robes, when they meet me, tell me they want their children to learn to play a musical instrument. Today in the streets of Iran you will see young girls carrying their musical instruments to music classes. In the University music students eagerly learn music and their parents are proud to listen to their children playing the piano, violin, etc. It is so wonderful to compare these times to those when I was a young man. A time when music was a sin and musicians were sinners.
Anyway, I hope I was a small element in this change of atmosphere for the arts. I continue to follow these principles so when you see my programs and hear my music you will see humanitarian love and mysticism, not dance or finger snapping. Of course there is music for dance. All kinds of music should be available. My music is not the only kind of music that should exist. There must be joyful music, music for mourning, music for youth, music for all generations and all kinds of taste and style.
If I’m not mistaken in your recent work you connected the rustic (peasant) music to classical music, how can you connect these together?
First of all I am from the State of Khorasan. I taught for five years in the villages of Ghouchan and Mashad (Khorasan). Every day I listened to Kurdish songs and from them I have a lot of memories. There were children in classrooms singing songs and I would encourage them. My father was from the same region where his father was a farmer. They knew a lot of Kurdish peasants and used to sing songs in their dialect. Because he was a skilled singer, he could mimic them perfectly. Unfortunately, because of his strong religious beliefs he later stopped singing, but when I was growing up my father would sometimes sing them on his own. I would listen to him and learn his gestures and style of singing. Because my ear was used to this Kurdish style of singing and music I decided to follow it. When these people would gather for music festivals I would go to see them perform. That period of my youth, the land, the people and the compassion for those lives, so deprived were images that repeated in my mind like a film. So in short this was the history of my acquaintance and knowledge with this kind of music.
I always believed that a person need not start a job, but when one does start a job he or she should do it well and strive for perfection. Often I have found that many of my favorite musicians have spoiled this rustic music because they did not strive for perfection. Their interpretations mock these songs and destroyed them. Their interpretations made me uncomfortable and unhappy and caused me to wonder why they would have done such a poor job. This rustic music belongs to its creators. Their style of music should be respected and kept as pure as possible. Therefore, instruments used in its reproduction must be genuine, from the area. And, the music itself must maintain the same quality and character of the original music. I am very critical of famous artists when they change and spoil the natural beauty of this music. Thankfully I am not the only artist who feels this way.
In the case of Kyhan Kalhor, I recognized the great job he has done in his music. He has kept the message of the music true. For that reason, I accepted to collaborate with him. It was about five years ago that we went to a studio together to record a song. At first it sounded good, but when I listened to it later, I found that it lacked the message I wanted. It lacked the atmosphere found in the original music of this region. For over two years I thought about this. I knew that in order to make this a great piece of music I had to maintain its original atmosphere. So, I tried a lot to get the dialect of those villagers. I needed to have their same tone of voice. In order to obtain my perfection in this project I knew it was time that I revive all the memories of my childhood and youth. I practiced and finally I felt comfortable. I sang over the music we previously recorded in Iran.
We went back to the studio and fortunately the emotional atmosphere I sought appeared in my mind. I was taken back to the village where I spent some of my youth. Though it took time we finally accomplished our goal. The value of the original music was not spoiled. I must state that Mr. Kalhor’s efforts were valuable and admirable both in this project and in his efforts in America. He has assembled a group of musicians and musical instruments that give the same message heard in the villages of Khorasan (near Ghouchan and Mashad). His use of local instruments allows his music to duplicate its perfume and atmosphere.
It is admirable that after reaching such a high level of success as a master in music, you are still ready to take chances and risks. This is shown in this new style of work. Can you address this?
Anything one does in life has risks. If you don’t have the guts to take the risk you will never reach the next level. I am not saying that you should suddenly jump from one step to another step without preparation. What I am saying is that you should take the risk fully aware of its consequences. You should never do anything haphazardly. For example, before I took on this project, or risk, I had thought about it for years. When the time was right to take the risk, I took it. All of the conditions were met. Fortunately, all the projects and situations that I have approached in this manner have been successful and have reached a successful conclusion.
It is interesting that despite all the time I spend with the masters I still desire to work with young people. They work hard when they are encouraged and have more sense of responsibility. In working with them, after awhile I can see the rate of their progress. For the most part its good. I will work with any young person who I feel has done a good job and is bright and dedicated. Young people have new ideas, which allows me the chance to create new work and use their creative minds.
After the Revolution, you traveled to the U.S. and Europe. I have seen you in three concerts. I feel that you have opened a different door for many artistes living in Iran and those abroad, who have no hope to return back to Iran. How does this affect you?
When you are acquainted with people you are naturally influenced. It becomes a part of you. Artists who were influenced or touched by society can easily move forward and take these influences with them. When an artist is in touch with his/her society, they move with it, because they know they are part of it. These artists in this circumstance, if they know their job well, can be a leader of that society in music, cinema, painting, poetry or literature or other professions. But, if they do not stay in touch with their people and their roots they will have turmoil. We have tried not to be separated from our people. This will prevent us from falling behind. We need to feel their pain and be ready to what we can to ease that pain.
When I interview talents like you I like to get their opinion on a subject that continues to puzzle me. In Iran there is limited opportunity to excel. In contrast, the U.S and Europe provides us with great freedom and choice. But it has been twenty years since the Revolution and we still have not been able to have artists like you, Alizadeh, Kalhor as a household name in music or the cinema, in USA, why?
I believe that creativity for the most part comes from one’s roots and the soil that nurtures it. If you do not physically have your roots in that soil you cannot get proper nutrition. I feel that some of my songs are like mourning songs. They present the pain and miseries of a society. Some people, when they listen to my music, cry others do not. When I stay more than five or six months away from Iran, I find myself losing my connection. For example, twelve years ago I was out of Iran for ten months on tour. One month before my return to Iran, the mayor of Barcelona (Spain) invited me for a concert and festival in Barcelona. Twenty days before the festival. I suddenly felt that I could not sing. I was not the same Shajarian that created those masterpieces. I suddenly felt empty. After ten months away from my problems. I felt I had nothing from that soil. I couldn’t feel my environment any longer. I couldn’t feel the pain and I couldn’t touch them anymore. I had called my wife and told her I was coming home. She reminded me that I had a concert in twenty days and thought I was crazy. She told me not to come, not to go through unnecessary expenses. For me the price of a round trip ticket is a lot of money, but I really felt I would not be able to perform. I told her I had to return.
When I returned to Iran, I once again came in touch with my problems. My pain and suffering became visible again: I was able to touch them. I was able to return to Spain and give the concert.
Some of our good artists, who have lived for many years abroad, cannot influence an Iranian audience, because they cannot transfer their feeling and create that atmosphere of the natural soil. Those who can identify with this problem and return to Iran will better transfer this atmosphere to their audience. It is as if we get slapped back to reality. Our roots get nutrients from that soil. We are then able to offer our Iranian art and get back in touch with the people. This is true, it is not in our imagination.
As I stated that trip of twelve years ago left me empty. I thought I couldn’t sing. It wasn’t that I forgot how to sing or that my voice was harmed, I had just lost the stimulus and atmosphere to sing.
This explains the deficiency of Iranians in music and the cinema. The battery of these artists who have lived abroad is empty. They must come back home and allow their roots to be watered and charged with events that are going on in Iran today. Without seeing it first hand, they cannot understand this. I am not saying that they do not experience pain living abroad, but it is a different pain, it is the pain from being away from home, not the same pain felt by the people living in Iran.
In concluding this interview, can you tell us about your most and least favorite memories?
I have many memories. One of my worse, however, deals with the confrontations I have had with Iranians abroad. Too often they believe that anyone who comes from Iran is connected to the Islamic Republic, and is their agent. They treat them unfairly. They become victims and are punished for something they never did or said. All they have done was to try and protect the arts. I believe this labeling is unfair and I don’t know why these people think this way, this is very sad. This automatic labeling is not right. To attach us to one political party or another, when all we desire is to preserve our art, is very unfair. As for a favorite memory, it comes from inside Iran. It is related to the pressures that were put on me, and the efforts that I had to make to eliminate them.
When did this occur?
I think it was seven years ago. We had a concert, and my brother was the manager of the program. One hour before the concert my brother came with a tape of the Islamic Republic National Anthem. He told me that we must play it before the concert. I told him I would not allow it. An officer heard my response and came in to the rehearsal room. He told me that this was an order and that he was in charge to carry out the order. He threatened my arrest if I did not do this. I was angered by his words and I told him he was in charge of himself, but not in charge of my concert. I told him that I was the musician and I would indicated what was played at this concert and if he wanted to arrest me to do it then and not wait until after the concert. He told me “No I would not arrest you NOW!” this time another agent came. I told him there would be no national anthem at this concert. He allowed us to start the concert without the national anthem
The national anthem has a great respect and value and is not suitable for concerts and movie theaters. They play the anthem at international games, when they want to give a gold medal to a champion.
After my explanation, he told me that he was sorry and that I was right. After this incident we became good friends. This was both a good and bad memory for me. Bad, because he made us nervous, but good because I convinced him that you cannot play the National Anthem at a concert.
My last question s about the future of Iranian music?
The Iranian people never should be worried about their music. You cannot stop a weed from growing on a farm. And in that sense you cannot stop music. Who can stop a nation’s music? You can cut the flowers, but these flowers are cultivated inside the soil. Whatever is inside a nation, you cannot cut and eliminate. Music and art are inside of Iranians and the country. Every day it gets stronger. It is spreading and bringing new artists. The quality of their work is also improving. In the next ten to fifteen years you will see many young artists emerges.
An now I ask if you have a closing comment?
No, I wish the best for all the people in the world. I hope that Iranian hearts continue to beat for Iran and for all humanity. They must know that the gifts of our heritage cannot be taken away.